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Oh my god
I cannot fix all the badfic and I should tamp down hard on the desire to TRY. Like, that one wasn't even badly written, it just could have been more interesting with a slightly different premise, and it was off a kinkmeme so you fill what you get asked, I get that.
AND I DID NOT NEED SLAVE!TONY IN MY HEAD ASKING FOR A BETTER STORY FML
ETA: Other things that freak me out about fanfiction: horrifying Tony with Steve/Howard. And like, the weird thing is, I'm pretty sure, based on the whole Carter legacy, that if Steve had slept with Howard it would turn him into an obsessed creepface about Tony, but I don't get the sense that fandom is drawing that parallel, I think fandom is just having its own personal id all over everything creepface issues. (I SAY THIS WITH LOVE. I AM NOT JUDGING YOUR CREEPFACE. MUCH.)
On the other hand, I think it would be really hilarious to horrify STEVE with Tony knowing about Steve/Howard. It was just one of those things--Dad bagged Captain America. (I am imagining Tony got told as a teenager when he started sleeping with boys and Howard was like "You think this is a rebellion? Let me tell you about my boyfriends, trust me, you're not rebelling against anything here," and frankly, Steve is HORRIFIED that the tale of their LOVE got used this way. Tony is like, "Whatever, I was pretty horrible as a teenager, I probably deserved it." Ahahaha, oh Tony, as a teenager you were horrible. Yes.)
AND I DID NOT NEED SLAVE!TONY IN MY HEAD ASKING FOR A BETTER STORY FML
ETA: Other things that freak me out about fanfiction: horrifying Tony with Steve/Howard. And like, the weird thing is, I'm pretty sure, based on the whole Carter legacy, that if Steve had slept with Howard it would turn him into an obsessed creepface about Tony, but I don't get the sense that fandom is drawing that parallel, I think fandom is just having its own personal id all over everything creepface issues. (I SAY THIS WITH LOVE. I AM NOT JUDGING YOUR CREEPFACE. MUCH.)
On the other hand, I think it would be really hilarious to horrify STEVE with Tony knowing about Steve/Howard. It was just one of those things--Dad bagged Captain America. (I am imagining Tony got told as a teenager when he started sleeping with boys and Howard was like "You think this is a rebellion? Let me tell you about my boyfriends, trust me, you're not rebelling against anything here," and frankly, Steve is HORRIFIED that the tale of their LOVE got used this way. Tony is like, "Whatever, I was pretty horrible as a teenager, I probably deserved it." Ahahaha, oh Tony, as a teenager you were horrible. Yes.)
Re: Last extra comment, honest.
I think what I mean when I say "I am not writing this" is "I am making no commitments and I owe you nothing but let's talk about possibilities anyway." I don't think I'd use it with people who I thought had the power to pressure me in a way I felt uncomfortable? But thinking about how much that kind of thing gets used in a broader fannish context I sort of go ow. Because that's a lot of subtext and caveats going into that "no doesn't always mean no."
(Also I am kind of wondering how I have managed to entirely miss all of these slave!Tony badfics! Maybe my decision to only follow kinkmemes for quite small fandoms was a good one after all.)
Conversation elsewhere
And also, in this case, it is about sex, about a sexual interaction. I was reading this post about solving rape culture forever and part of her definition is "any kind of sexual experience, any kind at all, whether it's responding to flirtation or spending the weekend in bed with you or anything in between" and it got me thinking: I feel like if someone asks a writer to write them something that hits a kink of theirs, that's a sexual interaction. Actually. Like, there's extra bits of things, like if the writer posts that story publicly it's not JUST for the original requester, it becomes an interaction with multiple people, call it maybe exhibition or something, and it's, it's trading in more removed fantasies than like, direct cybersexing or whatever, but it is, actually, a sexual interaction to ask for/write a kink for someone. So the notion of a "no that doesn't mean no" is SUPER problematic in this context.
I was considering writing up my own entry and being all "argh but do I want to deal with it" so um, actually, you writing up an entry so it can be over there and me not necessarily have to deal with--that would work really well for me! I am okay with you linking here, but I would prefer you not just post a link but put whatever content you want to discuss (your own, quotes of me also fine if you want) IN the entry to encourage replies there. I can deal with some replies here, just--not all the replies. (And I might freeze threads if it gets too much for me. But I'll try to leave the content up, if it's not poisonous.)
Link me to your entry, I'll ETA the main post to say.
(Also I am kind of wondering how I have managed to entirely miss all of these slave!Tony badfics! Maybe my decision to only follow kinkmemes for quite small fandoms was a good one after all.)
Hahaha, I do not even follow kinkmemes. I am reading stuff off my pinboard network and things people post to AO3 after they de-anon on kinkmemes. Basically what happened is I came to the end of all the Steve/Tony--sort of--and went back and starting reading things I had skipped over on my first run, in desperation, but um, it turns out there was a REASON I skipped some things. *facepalm*
Re: Conversation elsewhere
...you were around for that meta kerfuffle years ago about how all slashers are queer because writing slash is a sexual act, weren't you? Because on the one hand, no, we are talking about a bad Steve/Tony AU, it is not the same thing, but on the other hand, it is all a continuum, and also we are digging deep into our vulnerable places, and sharing them, when we do this, that's why these issues keep coming up.
...and I see, that explains it. When I ran out of first-run Steve/Tony recently I decided for some reason to instead start re-reading all of the Eroica fic on AO3. In chronological order, starting with the ones that were written in the 90s. And speaking of OMG THE CONSENT PROBLEMS. :P Either my memory has gone all rosy, or I really have gotten accustomed to much better treatment of this stuff in only the past three or four years since the last time I did that.
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Fannish experience: multiple.
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(I have one political fic, because it's about the experiences of someone growing up in The Troubles in Belfast. At the time I noted quite strongly that it was a departure for me!)
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Re: the nature of fannish porn
Re: the nature of fannish porn
It's not that I don't have fandom kinks! But they're the kind of kinks that make me go "Awwww!" and want to give someone a hug! Even when they're hardcore porn!
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So it won't bring anything down on you, but I thought it was polite to let you know it existed.
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This really rings true to me. I definitely know that "omg write me [something] because that is SO HOT unf unf unf" makes me feel the same way that being asked to take off my shirt or whatever by an obviously lascivious person. They're asking you to perform an act that is all about their sexuality. Which isn't bad, not in either case--but it's not sexually neutral, either, and both circumstances make me uncomfortable if they're unwanted.
Re: the nature of fannish porn
Re: the nature of fannish porn
I'm finding this fascinating because a couple of my fics that are other people's favourites are ones where I went "OK, I really don't do this (kink), but...". Because I had to get into the character's head and find out exactly what *they* found hot about it, whereas if they're doing something I know all about then yeah, it's probably a little lazier writing because it's more on the surface.
For example - I wrote a hand-feeding snippet. I really don't do that, I have issues with food, I'm still a little surprised I kept my brain at arm's length long enough to write it. But for those 20 minutes or whatever, it didn't matter that I didn't like it - I had to get in the boy's head and work out why he liked it, why it was so wonderful from his POV. And that came out on paper, and it's all him. More recently I did a bit involving gloryholes, I Do Not Get It... and yet it got a tonne of appreciative comments, because it worked for the character.
So writing stuff that's not about my ID seems to produce more interesting porn. Again, comes back to "Look how different people's experiences are", which is what's fascinating.
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Re: the nature of fannish porn
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(A couple of years of putting up with certain people who would tell me things like they "had alone time" or "jumped [their] husband" after reading fic has left me oblivious to anything but anvils.)
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Fascinating meta is fascinating! Not least because I have written for a kinkmeme (twice, and a very small one; it's not like it's a hobby), and also have read several (large, popular, long-running) kinkmemes. While I've evaluated them in terms of openness versus privacy, I've never considered this angle before.
Disclaimer: Subjective statement is subjective, and in no way intended to suggest YOU'RE WRONG! or that your experience is not valid! Just that my own experiences and perceptions are quite different.
For me, not even writing -- and at least once it was a pairing I'd never even have considered reading -- struck me as I-am-doing-a-sexual-thing. *shrugs*
In my head, I think I experience it as "it's all about fannish encouragement" (we all have kinks, you never know who shares your kink, and ANYBODY, not just BNFs, can write and be seen!) and, for me as a writer, it's about getting a bunch of no-pressure challenges, seeing what grabs me, and incidentally making somebody feel happy/accepted.
I don't really think of reading fanfic, even explicit fanfic, as a sexual thing, either, or at least not 98% of the time; it's an emotional high rather than a physiological arousal.