jmtorres: Beka touches Trance's face, Andromeda. do you ever...? (Drom)
jmtorres ([personal profile] jmtorres) wrote2002-08-22 11:40 pm

AI gender and sexuality...



"I think I may become a man," Rommie idly announced one night on graveyard shift. She was keeping Harper company on the dimmed command deck, one hand resting in an open recharge port at the weapons station, the other holding a flexi on which Harper had curiously noted flickering images of faces.

"Uh," said Harper, and set down his Sparky cola, deciding that if she repeated what he thought he'd heard, he didn't want to be drinking. "Run that by me again?" he requested.

"I said, I'm considering becoming a man for my next incarnation," Rommie replied. "Or possibly a non-human hermaphrodite. But I can't decide what species I'm interested in, and my cultural programming is still primarily human. So I'll probably become a man." She was frowning at the flexi, thumbing a button on the side repeatedly, and looking as if she wished she had both hands free.

"Slow down a minute for the poor organic, Rommie," Harper said. "You know even I can't compete with your circuits. What do you mean, your next incarnation?"

"High Guard AIs are permitted to choose their form," Rommie explained, "and to rechoose their form, if they get bored. Which happens every once in a while with beings designed to live for thousands of years."

"Okay, I get that, I guess," Harper said, wondering if he'd have the guts to turn into a woman, if he were to live a few thousand years and got bored restyling his hair. "But you've only had that body a little more than a year. Just a few months, really. You could even count it in mere weeks--"

"Changing the unit doesn't change the amount of time in question," Rommie said mildly, looking amused at him.

"But is there something wrong with it?" Harper asked. "I mean, I made it right, didn't I?"

"The body's fine," Rommie replied. "It's served me well, and will probably continue to do so for several years. I'm not planning on shifting my incarnation anytime soon. A shift that drastic is usually reserved for a period of complete crew turnover, out of politeness." She paused, then added, "I may have only had this body for a short period of time, but I've worn this appearance for a few centuries now."

"Counting black hole time or not?" Harper asked.

Rommie gave him another fond, amused look. "It's not polite to ask a woman's age," she told him.

"I'm not," Harper countered. "I'm asking a future man."

Rommie smiled at that. "Not counting black hole time... well, more than one."

"You don't look a day of it," Harper told her shamelessly. "But... well... why a man?"

Rommie shrugged. "Curiosity. The opportunity to have a different three eighths of the population regard me as a piece of meat. The fact that women's support wear is uniformly uncomfortable."

Harper snorted. The first time he'd asked Beka why she ran the Maru's grav fields as low as she did, she'd replied, "Because bras suck and I don't care to sag."

"So, uh," Harper asked, "would you be like a gay guy, or... what?"

"Harper," Rommie said with a touch of exasperation, "I really don't determine my sexuality that way. Just because I look human doesn't mean I am."

Harper raised his eyebrows. "So explain it to me."

Rommie pressed her lips together primly. She set the flexi down. She said, "If I'm attracted to an organic being, that's heterosexual. If I'm attracted to an artificial being, that's homosexual. Which, I suppose, makes me bisexual."

"And if you're attracted to a gorgeous human with some artificial upgrades?" Harper asked, leaning on the weapons station and grinning at her flirtatiously.

"If I'm ever attracted to you, I'll let you know," Rommie replied acidly, and picked up the flexi again.

"Aw, you know you love me," Harper said.

"Yes, I do," Rommie answered. "That's different."

"What, like a brother?" Harper complained, "You, and Beka, and Trance..."

"No, like my engineer," Rommie said. She frowned at him. "Just because the relationship doesn't involve sex doesn't mean it's not special. You're my engineer, Harper. Do you know what that means?"

Harper felt like he was being tested. "Yeah," he said, thinking of how it felt when he was working on her. "It means--you trust me."

Rommie favored him with a bright smile. Harper smiled back, feeling warm.


I didn't know it was going to end that way... Dru's influence again, I think.

[identity profile] ide-cyan.livejournal.com 2002-08-23 01:10 am (UTC)(link)
I'm flashing back to Lal choosing her appearance on the holodeck in that one episode of TNG where Data had a daughter...

Re:

[identity profile] jmtorres.livejournal.com 2002-08-23 01:27 am (UTC)(link)
I was too, a bit. Of course, then I got to talking with [livejournal.com profile] jcalanthe and his talk got me flashing on Kryten (of Red Dwarf)'s groinal attachments.
jcalanthe: locke sitting on a beach (Default)

[personal profile] jcalanthe 2002-08-23 03:04 am (UTC)(link)
*giggle* This is highly entertaining. I hope there'll be more. And let me just say again, damn you for sucking me into yet another fandom!


This is my favorite line:


If I'm ever attracted to you, I'll let you know


Smooches to [livejournal.com profile] cadetdru for being a good influence. This has gotta be a good warmup for LiannaFic, eh? *g*

Re:

[identity profile] jmtorres.livejournal.com 2002-08-23 02:06 pm (UTC)(link)
Ever the optimist, aren't you. *G*

damn you for sucking me into yet another fandom!

You watched Lava and Rockets and The Things We Cannot Change of your own free will. I take absolutely no responsibility.

This weekend is The Widening Gyre, the second season opener... the Magoglets storyline will make more sense after that, but I hear it's a pitiful conclusion to the first season finale, which was terrific.

Why are they showing the *crap* episodes in reruns?
jcalanthe: locke sitting on a beach (Default)

[personal profile] jcalanthe 2002-08-23 05:03 pm (UTC)(link)
Ever the optimist, aren't you


This is not something often said about me. :)


I watched whatever eps were on because I read some of your ficsnips here, and wanted to know who was who. Plus the Nietzchians started to intrigue me (and not just cuz Tyr is hot). Still your fault. :P


I started having plotbunnies last night even. If Nietzchians are totally fixated on reproduction, what would happen if one were gay? Like Kinsey 0 gay, unable to maintain an erection with a woman (yes, I'm skipping over female Nietzchians here). I suppose I'd believe that all their reproduction is done artificially anyway, but if not, it would be an interesting character headspace to explore....

Re:

[identity profile] jmtorres.livejournal.com 2002-08-23 06:31 pm (UTC)(link)
I suppose I'd believe that all their reproduction is done artificially anyway

Oh no. They fuck. You'll see. Pretty blonde lady gets to bite Tyr's chest while Dylan remembers Rhade telling him that everything Nietzscheans do is a "sexually charged negotiation."

We're fairly certain we've met a Nietzschean dyke (so shame on you for skipping over them *G*) but yes, those of us who slash Nietzscheans have to jump through hoops inventing some kind of philosophy to cover it. I've been lazy and haven't written mine out yet. A lot of it is lazy in and of itself--it goes, roughly, "They weren't quite as obsessed in Rhade's time. I mean, they let him hang out with humans anyway." *cough* There's more to it than that. But I'm saving it.
ext_6977: (Default)

[identity profile] viridian5.livejournal.com 2002-08-24 08:51 am (UTC)(link)
To my surprise, last year they skipped over a few of the crap episodes during summer reruns. As to why this year they're showing a long run of the crap episodes week after week, I have no idea....

[identity profile] kyrre.livejournal.com 2002-08-23 04:27 am (UTC)(link)
You have mentioned Rhade/Rommie bits before: Rommie choking Rhade? I can't quite imagine a cowed Rommie.

My Rhade is scaring me (and Dylan) by being a control freak. Even if he is at his nicest he is in control. It isn't by chance Dylan doesn't show up with bunnies.

Re:

[identity profile] jmtorres.livejournal.com 2002-08-23 02:11 pm (UTC)(link)
You have mentioned Rhade/Rommie bits before: Rommie choking Rhade? I can't quite imagine a cowed Rommie.

Thankfully she's grown some spine in the past twenty-four hours. They're currently having a shouting match in my head. But as to what was going on before... well, the best I can explain it right now is, Rhade got the opportunity (metaphorically) to choke her back. And did.

It isn't by chance Dylan doesn't show up with bunnies.

I think Dylan may have dreamed my Rhadeverse into existence with all his brooding and moping during Home Fires. I also think he may regret it.

[identity profile] kyrre.livejournal.com 2002-08-23 02:44 pm (UTC)(link)
Rhade got the opportunity (metaphorically) to choke her back. And did.

Show me, please!

I also think he may regret it.

Maybe, or maybe not. Peronally I think the advantages and disadvantages from having Rhade around are even. In the long run Dylan is better off with him. But making it easy for him wasn't in the deal, that's true. ;)

Re:

[identity profile] jmtorres.livejournal.com 2002-08-23 06:21 pm (UTC)(link)
Well, he's dead now. That's kind of a disadvantage.

Show me, please!

I am planning a entry wherein I outline most of the Rommie/Rhade arc... I hope to post that soon.

Also, there may be sex. If I can finish this one scene.
ext_6977: (Default)

[identity profile] viridian5.livejournal.com 2002-08-23 07:10 am (UTC)(link)
Beka keeping the gravity low so she won't sag is priceless. heh!

Interesting idea about the AIs getting to choose their incarnations. When Rommie says that AIs usually tend to do it during crew turnover to make things easier, it made me wonder what she thought might happen soon that she's thinking about her next self now....

Re:

[identity profile] jmtorres.livejournal.com 2002-08-23 02:14 pm (UTC)(link)
Interesting idea about the AIs getting to choose their incarnations.

Didn't Rommie tell Beka she selected her appearance by running a few million random feature combinations until she found the one she thought would be most pleasing to the eye?

When Rommie says that AIs usually tend to do it during crew turnover to make things easier, it made me wonder what she thought might happen soon that she's thinking about her next self now....

When I was trying to pin down the date, it seemed to fall shortly after "The Widening Gyre." Which may have had something to do with it.
ext_6977: (Default)

[identity profile] viridian5.livejournal.com 2002-08-23 06:55 pm (UTC)(link)
Sure, Rommie got to choose what visage would best reflect "Andromeda," but it doesn't feel the same as changing her gender and looks together after having been one way for years. Given the High Guard attitude we've seen so far, I'd think they'd find an AI that wanted to change its whole interface self to be unnecessarily disruptive to the crew and ship's mission. Rommie and Dylan seemed disquieted by Pax changing her name and personality to better fit Warrick's romantic aspirations.

That was just my thinking.

Re:

[identity profile] jmtorres.livejournal.com 2002-08-23 07:27 pm (UTC)(link)
Rommie and Dylan seemed disquieted by Pax changing her name and personality to better fit Warrick's romantic aspirations.

I actually had a bit about that in my head... No really, I did.

I'm regretting not having gotten it written down yet.
ext_6977: (Default)

[identity profile] viridian5.livejournal.com 2002-08-24 08:48 am (UTC)(link)
I was disquieted by what she did to herself in the name of being a better match for Warrick. The reasons behind it made me want to kick Warrick until he got his head dislodged from his ass. Not that he seemed to be thinking with his head....

Re:

[identity profile] jmtorres.livejournal.com 2002-08-24 02:03 pm (UTC)(link)
what she did to herself in the name of being a better match for Warrick. The reasons behind it made me want to kick Warrick until he got his head dislodged from his ass.

Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.

He was a manipulative bastard with no ethics and she was too damn dependent on him.
ext_8105: my (former) self (Default)

[identity profile] cadetdru.livejournal.com 2002-08-24 04:06 pm (UTC)(link)
I think at least Rommie's panicky reaction to that was because avatars shouldn't be changed to humor the captain's libido, let alone the avatar's name and personality.

Re:

[identity profile] jmtorres.livejournal.com 2002-08-24 04:48 pm (UTC)(link)
I'm trying to reconcile two things:

1. I think Rommie was largely bothered by the way Jill dissociated from the Pax.

2. Rommie [the android avatar] is becoming more and more distinct from the ship.
ext_6977: (Default)

[identity profile] viridian5.livejournal.com 2002-08-25 05:18 am (UTC)(link)
2. Rommie [the android avatar] is becoming more and more distinct from the ship.

Considering canon, I can very easily see her deciding not to go along with the change. I imagine that she would be upset, angry, defiant, and displaying it all through bitchiness....

If High Guard law supported a ship AI's right to change gender and appearance, would it allow the android avatar to refuse like that, since suggestions abound that they stopped creating the androids specifically because the androids starting gaining personalities distinct from their ships?

Re:

[identity profile] jmtorres.livejournal.com 2002-08-25 11:32 am (UTC)(link)
I was actually thinking that the android avatar might be more interested in experimenting with this than the ship's AI, as holo-Rommie has shown considerably less change than android Rommie. On the other hand, I can also see her being all, "But I like my body. I've just finished customizing it to be exactly the way I want it!"

It seems to me that the law would support the status quo, that is to say, it would support one part's refusal of drastic change to the extent of banning such change until it was agreed upon and implemented by all the avatars. Which leaves the question of which changes fall under "drastic" and which are merely cosmetic. Is Rommie bending the rules by coloring her hair? Were Jill's changes illegal, or only wrong?
ext_8105: my (former) self (Default)

[identity profile] cadetdru.livejournal.com 2002-08-25 05:47 pm (UTC)(link)
I think Jill/Pax's choices were wrong in the complete dissociation way. Rommie calls the ship "me" now and then.

And I don't think it was illegal. Just wrong, in that context.

Re:

[identity profile] jmtorres.livejournal.com 2002-08-25 06:53 pm (UTC)(link)
"I can't contact me. The ship, I mean."

"I've never been so glad to see me."

Just from this weekend.

Yes, dissociation is bad.

I think it'd be pretty hysterical if the hologram and the android took different appearances and genders but still referred to each other as "me" too. They'd get people asking after "your other half" and/or "your better half" and spawn a wave of some kind of incestuous fiction...
ext_6977: (Default)

[identity profile] viridian5.livejournal.com 2002-08-25 09:35 pm (UTC)(link)
Rommie seems to take after Harper... more than she probably wants to admit. Her adherence to High Guard rules seems to be situational.... ::grin:: I think she's put enough time and effort in the customization of her own body that she wouldn't want to change it completely on the say-so of the rest of her unless given good incentives.
ext_6977: (Default)

[identity profile] viridian5.livejournal.com 2002-09-02 08:31 pm (UTC)(link)
Is Rommie bending the rules by coloring her hair? Were Jill's changes illegal, or only wrong?

I can very easily see oversight committees putting AIs through several psychiatric evaluations over such changes just to make sure they don't have a ship going insane on their hands. They'd want to know why this is happening.

I don't remember where I got this canon from, show or an official site or what, but the Commonwealth stopped creating android bodies for its AI ships at some point because the androids so often started to differentiate themselves from the main AI.

Re:

[identity profile] jmtorres.livejournal.com 2002-09-03 11:06 pm (UTC)(link)
I can very easily see oversight committees putting AIs through several psychiatric evaluations over such changes just to make sure they don't have a ship going insane on their hands. They'd want to know why this is happening.

"It'th a pierthing. No big deal. Lotth of people have pierthingth."

"Yes, but why didn't your AI match the appearance?"

"AIth don't give very many blowjobth."

Okay, that was *bad.*

ext_6977: (Default)

[identity profile] viridian5.livejournal.com 2002-09-03 11:18 pm (UTC)(link)
*cough* Surely one of the signs of the Long Night to come....

[identity profile] inarticulate.livejournal.com 2002-08-23 12:02 pm (UTC)(link)
I adore the artificial being idea of sexuality.

Actually, the whole thing is just... fun. I love the interaction between Harper and Rommie. It's very cute. I wonder what she looked like originally? ^_^

Re:

[identity profile] jmtorres.livejournal.com 2002-08-23 02:17 pm (UTC)(link)
I adore the artificial being idea of sexuality.

"Wait... so you and Gabriel... that was gay?"

Heh heh heh.

I wonder what she looked like originally? ^_^

I'm not sure she's not still on her first incarnation...

[identity profile] inarticulate.livejournal.com 2002-08-23 04:23 pm (UTC)(link)
*snerk* As the show suddenly takes on all sorts of new dimensions...

And I suppose it depends on how long she's been around. *grin*
ext_8105: my (former) self (Default)

Mmmmmm, yes.

[identity profile] cadetdru.livejournal.com 2002-08-23 04:48 pm (UTC)(link)
There's just shades of me scattered throughout this thing. Copasetic.

More? Please?

Re: Mmmmmm, yes.

[identity profile] jmtorres.livejournal.com 2002-08-23 06:25 pm (UTC)(link)
Probably, yes.