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research notes--FMA alternate history--marriage
Does anyone know if Hughes ever flashes his and Gracia's wedding pics? I would dearly love to know if she wore a white dress. White dresses for weddings were popularized by Queen Victoria's wedding to Prince Albert; before then, people tended to buy a dress they could use as a fancy/formal evening gown later on. And does the world of FMA have a Queen Victoria? And would she have worn white?
ETA: Does anyone know what hand Hughes and Gracia wear their rings on? Germany's one of those weird countries where you wear it on the right hand, not the left; I wonder if Amestris is the same./ETA ETA2: The answer to that seems to be left hand, but I'm wondering if he didn't wear it when he was on duty, because the thing is so damn tricky to find./ETA2 ETA4: Heh. By complete and total accident (ie, changing my google prefs in the middle of image-searching Gracia), I discovered that "moderate safe search" blocks![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
ponderosa121's site. Even though the Gracia pic she's done is not remotely risqué. But you know. We might find other things of nekkidity on her site. *snicker*/ETA4 ETA5: OMG, this is the scariest thing ever. BTW, why is Scar's brother called Bruce?/ETA5
ETA3: A lot of places have laws now that marriages have to be conducted in a public forum. (Australia is one that doesn't.) *ponder* /ETA3
Before about the 1540s, pretty much all marriages were common-law marriages. Apparently a lot of them did occur in churches out of expectations of family, but it was not required. Hell, witnesses weren't required. Specific vows weren't required. Marriage license, not required. You and your sweetie just agreed you were married, possibly with your parents' consent if you were like, 14.
In the mid-1500s, the church took an interest. Roman Catholic church started demanding its members have church weddings (not sure of the date on this one) and in England, there was a law passed that you had to be married by the CoE for it to be legal (unless you were a Quaker or a Jew).
But in Amestris... in Amestris... *taps lip* If the point of split is around 1500, and religion in Europe pretty much died, would the church have been in any position to demand... anything? I really wish I knew at what point Christianity kicked it, because it might be they had a last gasp and "OMG DO THIS" before they got squashed, and some pseudoreligous traditions may hang on in Amestris.
Even more interesting, the state interest in marriage really comes secondarily to the church interest, historically. The CoE thing was mid-1500s, but England didn't demand people get civil marriage licenses until 17something (in reaction to Fleet marriages--thousands of people getting married in Fleet Prison). Does Amestris give a damn about who marries who? Do you have to register with the state? Is there a state ceremony or certificate-signing or something? Does a civil servant have to preside? Can a military officer do it?
Traditions which are old enough to precede the split, and might still exist in Amestris:
--carrying wife over the threshold (Plutarch was analyzing the origins of this in the first century AD, and the conclusions are kind of icky; stuff like, reenactment of the Rape of the Sabines, or the woman only gives up her virginity when dragged into the house by her husband, or as a symbol of such fidelity that she enters the house carried by him and will only leave the house the same way)
--bachelor party (thought to originate with bachelor dinner in ancient Sparta)
--honeymoon (though possibly not as a "go someplace nice," just as a general period of romanticism)
--wedding cake (old, old tradition, involving cutting it with a sword)
Traditionsprobably not present that would have to have evolved parallel-ly in Amestris:
--bridal registry: The concept of a bridal registry was first instituted by Chicago-founded department store Marshall Fields in 1924, and has since been turned into a well-known experience of many large stores. (Drat, there goes the china patterns joke)
--that whole wearing white thing
Would love to hear further thoughts on this. *waves at flist*
ETA: Does anyone know what hand Hughes and Gracia wear their rings on? Germany's one of those weird countries where you wear it on the right hand, not the left; I wonder if Amestris is the same./ETA ETA2: The answer to that seems to be left hand, but I'm wondering if he didn't wear it when he was on duty, because the thing is so damn tricky to find./ETA2 ETA4: Heh. By complete and total accident (ie, changing my google prefs in the middle of image-searching Gracia), I discovered that "moderate safe search" blocks
ponderosa121's site. Even though the Gracia pic she's done is not remotely risqué. But you know. We might find other things of nekkidity on her site. *snicker*/ETA4 ETA5: OMG, this is the scariest thing ever. BTW, why is Scar's brother called Bruce?/ETA5ETA3: A lot of places have laws now that marriages have to be conducted in a public forum. (Australia is one that doesn't.) *ponder* /ETA3
Before about the 1540s, pretty much all marriages were common-law marriages. Apparently a lot of them did occur in churches out of expectations of family, but it was not required. Hell, witnesses weren't required. Specific vows weren't required. Marriage license, not required. You and your sweetie just agreed you were married, possibly with your parents' consent if you were like, 14.
In the mid-1500s, the church took an interest. Roman Catholic church started demanding its members have church weddings (not sure of the date on this one) and in England, there was a law passed that you had to be married by the CoE for it to be legal (unless you were a Quaker or a Jew).
But in Amestris... in Amestris... *taps lip* If the point of split is around 1500, and religion in Europe pretty much died, would the church have been in any position to demand... anything? I really wish I knew at what point Christianity kicked it, because it might be they had a last gasp and "OMG DO THIS" before they got squashed, and some pseudoreligous traditions may hang on in Amestris.
Even more interesting, the state interest in marriage really comes secondarily to the church interest, historically. The CoE thing was mid-1500s, but England didn't demand people get civil marriage licenses until 17something (in reaction to Fleet marriages--thousands of people getting married in Fleet Prison). Does Amestris give a damn about who marries who? Do you have to register with the state? Is there a state ceremony or certificate-signing or something? Does a civil servant have to preside? Can a military officer do it?
Traditions which are old enough to precede the split, and might still exist in Amestris:
--carrying wife over the threshold (Plutarch was analyzing the origins of this in the first century AD, and the conclusions are kind of icky; stuff like, reenactment of the Rape of the Sabines, or the woman only gives up her virginity when dragged into the house by her husband, or as a symbol of such fidelity that she enters the house carried by him and will only leave the house the same way)
--bachelor party (thought to originate with bachelor dinner in ancient Sparta)
--honeymoon (though possibly not as a "go someplace nice," just as a general period of romanticism)
--wedding cake (old, old tradition, involving cutting it with a sword)
Traditions
--bridal registry: The concept of a bridal registry was first instituted by Chicago-founded department store Marshall Fields in 1924, and has since been turned into a well-known experience of many large stores. (Drat, there goes the china patterns joke)
--that whole wearing white thing
Would love to hear further thoughts on this. *waves at flist*
no subject
There are no wedding pics that I know of. I think the only photo we see with Hughes and Gracia is the one of the three on the little table when Winry visits that has Gracia carrying Alicia.
As far as bridal registry and wearing white, I'd say both could be easily viable. Department stores wanting to make money is universal; it's not hard to make the leap that someone could've come up with the same or similar notion in Amestria and at an earlier point in time. And if one wants to go with the whole "death and taxes" thing, taxes could be what keeps the state's interest in marriage as well as putting restrictions on the types of marriages allowed.
no subject
This, yes; the wearing white thing, I'm still toying with. (Never mind that I've already written both the bride and groom wearing white at their wedding at least once... the whole story is under revision! Really!)
And if one wants to go with the whole "death and taxes" thing, taxes could be what keeps the state's interest in marriage as well as putting restrictions on the types of marriages allowed.
Hm. If I think of it as, what is the Amestrian social attitude, or the aims of the Amestrian government...
The Amestrian government is restrictive; it does not seek to make people happy. In fact, in some cases, it actively seeks to make people unhappy, to promote the kind of desperation that would lead people to create the Philosopher's Stone. While I imagine they probably don't take the Crowley approach to making people miserable (traffic! cell phones! annoying internet memes!), it's certainly not in their interest to make marriage all free and happy.
And if their goals include population growth so they have lots of wee soldiers to throw into war, that would be a great excuse for m/f marriage only.
no subject
The universe is flexible enough that I can easily go either way on the wearing white and not bat an eye.
While I imagine they probably don't take the Crowley approach to making people miserable...
Ha!
...you know, that right there would be some cracked out AU fun. I'm just saying.
And if their goals include population growth so they have lots of wee soldiers to throw into war, that would be a great excuse for m/f marriage only.
That's just makes me squirm because it's all too viable.
no subject
Oh, but what would they do with themselves?
Aziraphale: ...So the new Word is, the Ishbalans are God's chosen people.
Crowley: Really? I thought He was punshing them for something or other.
Aziraphale: No, She loves them!
Crowley: ...She?
Aziraphale: What?
Crowley: You people. Changing the Text to fit your needs.
Aziraphale: Hmph.
That's just makes me squirm because it's all too viable.
Yep. Generally considered to be part of the reasoning behind the no-contraceptives have two dozen children approach--to send them overseas for colonization, and to send them to war in the Crusades.
no subject