Eroica, Major Eberbach, and Body Language

[jmtorres]

Eroica, Major Eberbach, and Body Language

Or, an excuse to post a whole bunch of pictures of their bodies

From Eroica With Love constantly invites us to compare and contrast the heroes of the series, Dorian and Klaus. Consider this sequence on how they get up in the morning (bearing in mind it is manga and therefore should be read right to left):

(Knowing Klaus, he went to bed at six.)

(By the way, there is no fourth wall in this series. They comment on how many lines they got per episode and such.)

We're meant to notice a few particulars: Dorian lazes about unless dragged from bed while Klaus gets up on his own; Dorian sleeps nearly nude while Klaus wears an undershirt (pointed out to us by the narrator!) even under his pajamas.

But here's the thing that caught me about this sequence: Dorian sleeps all folded up, twisted, knees bent, arms around his head, while Klaus sleeps on his back with his legs spread.

Klaus is supposed to be the repressed one, right? To an extent, sleeping on his back supports that, but that his legs were spread doesn't. Also, Dorian's pose doesn't suggest his freedom of personality, it suggests he's curled up into a small space, possibly uncomfortably. He has room to stretch out, but doesn't in his sleep. And the sequence ends with him being balled up as tightly as possible.

When our narrator invites us to notice body language (and I'm actually unsure if this is Aoike or the translator) she points us at the hands:

Stranded in the North Sea, Dorian, Klaus, and Caesar (never to be seen again) huddle together for warmth. After being cajoled into singing a bit and discussing his love of tanks, Klaus stops freaking out quite so much:

From a later volume:

Trust me, there was a good, solid, work-related reason for Klaus to demand Dorian strip and give him his underpants.

Anyway, while the narrator points us at hands, I'm going to be focusing a lot on knees and elbows. I find them to be a lot more telling.

Klaus most usually sits with his knees open. Dorian, with his legs crossed.


And Klaus usually gets a comfortable slouch going, too.

While Dorian reigns himself in, Klaus spreads out and takes up as much available space as he can. Tall men do this--I should know, I have to fight my six-foot, fourteen-year-old brother for space all the time. Thing is, Dorian's only like half an inch shorter than Klaus; by all rights, he should be doing this too.

This one's kind of an odd one, in that he's in a formal situation and therefore stiff-backed. Yet even now, his knees are open.

Compare Dorian.



Dorian sits a lot, more than Klaus, which is something in and of itself. A bunch of these are the intro pics at the beginning of each volume; Klaus is often standing in his, while Dorian reclines. More on this disparity later.

Here, even Dorian's arms are crossed:

Even when Dorian's putting himself on display, his legs are crossed:

(Note that Dorian DOES smoke, just not like a chimney like Klaus. He's subtler about it...)

Which is not to say that Klaus never crosses his legs. However (watch the hands, heh) he has to hold them closed when he does:

Similar comparisons can be made in how they stand and walk. Klaus stands with his legs apart, even when his hips are akimbo, while Dorian crosses his legs standing. Klaus walks with his feet shoulder-width apart, while Dorian keeps his legs together.

Dorian even runs with his legs pulled up tighter than Klaus does.

Dorian's not always so prim though. He can stand like Klaus--when he's being aggressive.

So my point is: Klaus seems like the more relaxed one, the one more comfortable in his own body, while Dorian gets himself knotted up. Not that he looks tense, usually--just controlled. And you'd expect it to be the other way around.

Klaus is such a control freak with his body. He makes incredibly unreasonable demands of it, like sleeping in half-hour increments.

He's trained himself to be able to fire a .44 Magnum one-handed.

Now, admittedly, I know nothing about guns, so I'm kind of taking the manga's word for it that the recoil on a .44 Magnum is so bad that only Iron Klaus can fire the thing one-handed. However, I did google the gun, and in the ten minutes I spent reading, I found that they do sell an awful lot of accessories to make its recoil more manageable. I also found out that the .44 Magnum can cause permanent hearing damage to the shooter, pierce body armor at close range, and also slice, dice, and julienne fries. I'm convinced that Klaus is bad-ass.

A bad-ass who's most comfortable with a gun in his hand:

Because of the way Klaus controls his body so much in some respects, I found it startling that he'd ever let himself be at ease enough to slouch and sit with his knees apart. One theory I had about his usual spread-legged positions was that he uses his sexuality like a weapon, which would fit in with his utilitarian treatment of his body. It's a bit of a threatening stance--kind of a "Fear my giant cock!" thing.

Of course, it would be more a threat if he ever touched people. Instead, he completely flips out at touch, Dorian's or anyone else's.

Although he'll do a lot for a mission. Here, he tries to shoot a target a half a mile away from a moving train.

But the train lurches and...

Yeah, okay, that was pretty much completely gratuitous. Moving on.

My theory is that Klaus's control issues have an "all or nothing" flavor. Either he's totally in control of the situation with his spread-legged manly posturing, or else someone else has actually expressed interest in being touched and he has no control at all.

Or possibly that he actually has a giant cock and is only comfortable sitting with his knees six miles apart.

Your choice.

Now, Dorian. Why does Dorian sit all folded up? Looking at all of the pictures of Dorian bent up, I was reminded of something I once read about how men and women are pictured in art or advertising. Men are shown looking at the camera, standing straight. Women are shown looking away, sitting, laying down, curled up, or even with their faces cropped out of the frame. I couldn't find the thing I'd read, but I found another essay on the social construction of gender which discusses how men and women behave this way even when not externally posed:

Women sit waiting for trains with arms close to the body, hands folded together in their laps, toes pointing straight ahead or turned inward, and legs pressed together. The women in these photographs make themselves small and narrow, harmless; they seem tense; they take up little space. Men, on the other hand, expand into the available space; they sit with legs far apart and arms flung out at some distance from the body....

It's Dorian's effeminate nature that's on display. This shouldn't surprise me as much as it does, considering the strict seme/uke construction one finds in manga and anime. Dorian's being drawn as the 'woman.'

Many times, Dorian's balled up while Klaus stands straight, showing the disparity in the relationship--

Even when Klaus is in a vulnerable position, he's out-stretched while Dorian's balled up.

Here's the kicker.

Woman's space is not a field in which her bodily intentionality can be freely realized but an enclosure in which she feels herself positioned and by which she is confined. The "loose woman" violates these norms: her looseness is manifest not only in her morals, but in her manner of speech and quite literally in the free and easy way she moves.

Dorian doesn't read as loose, he reads as prim and proper. So much for slutty Dorian...

Comments

[inarticulate.livejournal.com]

I'm curious, now-- I never really liked the art style, and I'm generally not a fan so much of anime/manga where one character is flamingly gay (it's a situation where it's very easy to fall into stereotypes), but the attention to detail on the body language can't be a coincidence.

Hmm. What say you on matters of the plot? :3

[jmtorres.livejournal.com]

It reads like a slash story. They keep getting into situations where Klaus needs Dorian's underwear and whatnot. But they go through a character development from being opposites and enemies to becoming friends, even if Klaus's less insulting nickname for Dorian is "idiot."

Dorian's an art thief and a noble, so he hits a lot of stereotypes without even trying, what with the judging art and stuff, but I really find him rather adorable.

[mosellegreen.livejournal.com]

Personally, I kind of like the flamingly gay stereotypes. I mean, it's obvious that there's more to Dorian than that, so when he starts flaming like a house on fire, to me it's like he's saying, "That's right, I AM! And I don't care who knows it! I'm going to do whatever I want, even if you think it's sissified, and have fun with it!"

Which of course also makes him an excellent foil for the closeted and macho Klaus, who has more issues than National Geographic. :-)

[toscas-kiss.livejournal.com]

Very thoughtful and interesting! :-) and "kind of a "Fear my giant cock!" thing." LOL!

[jmtorres.livejournal.com]

*cracking up* Guess which one's my favorite.

I dare ya. Guess.

[mosellegreen.livejournal.com]

*g* Very fun post. Thank you.

The little notes about the undershirt, gloves and Klaus's hands were put in by the translator.

I do agree with you that Klaus's postures are designed to flaunt his masculinity and intimidate people. :-) (And of course he's hung like a club-tailed dragonfly.)

Incidentally, there's at least one scene where Dorian sits with his legs and arms apart, taking up as much space as possible. It's in the first issue, on page 17 of the CMX translation. It's when Caesar & co. arrive at that party, and Dorian is lounging on a sofa with a goblet in one hand. Of course, this is when he's courting the very femmey Caesar, so it makes sense that he would emphasize his own masculinity!

However, I think another reason that Klaus sits or lies with his legs apart is that I'm convinced he is, despite being the taller, darker & more masculine half of the couple, still a uke. Which is probably part of the reason for his issues: he might be able to deal with his homosexuality better if he wanted to be on top, but he doesn't, I'm sure of it.

Hmm, I think I may have to make an LJ post of my own backing this theory up. ;-)

Anyway, very interesting remarks on Dorian's flirtatious feminine poses and Klaus's sprawling masculine ones!

[jmtorres.livejournal.com]

The little notes about the undershirt, gloves and Klaus's hands were put in by the translator

Thanks. *grins* I did wonder.

I do agree with you that Klaus's postures are designed to flaunt his masculinity and intimidate people.

I'm currently breaking my brain trying to figure out a circumstance where he could carry that intimidation out to its natural end without totally flipping out...

(And of course he's hung like a club-tailed dragonfly.)

He's a fictional character. Why wouldn't he be? *G*

Incidentally, there's at least one scene where Dorian sits with his legs and arms apart, taking up as much space as possible.

Oh, you're right! There's a few good examples of him standing like John Wayne, too. I totally didn't look in the first issue because I was obsessed with Klaus.

However, I think another reason that Klaus sits or lies with his legs apart is that I'm convinced he is, despite being the taller, darker & more masculine half of the couple, still a uke.

(Uke = bottom, yeah? I can never keep them straight. I hail from live action fandom.) So it's kind of an unconscious invitation?

I think I could relate to Klaus on that point. I know that as a woman, sitting with my legs spread is a powerful gesture that some people find threatening, and I take a lot of glee in it (when I'm not doing it completely unconsciously, because I also have to hold 'em shut if I want 'em that way--I just never trained my thigh muscles for sitting knees together or something). However, if someone unexpected or unwanted puts something in that space, it can make me unhappy. I once had a boss who put her feet up on the rungs of a stool I was sitting, while she was writing me up, no less, and I felt just ugh.

Anyway, I look forward to seeing your post!

Another thing:

[mosellegreen.livejournal.com]

Klaus is supposed to be the repressed one, right? To an extent, sleeping on his back supports that, but that his legs were spread doesn't. Also, Dorian's pose doesn't suggest his freedom of personality, it suggests he's curled up into a small space, possibly uncomfortably. He has room to stretch out, but doesn't in his sleep. And the sequence ends with him being balled up as tightly as possible.

You're very perceptive, and so had better write a lot of Eroicafic. The fic is full of KlausAngst, but I'm convinced Dorian's pretty angsty himself. I really think his life is as unfulfilled (in some parts) as Klaus's. He's so romantic, but instead of a committed relationship he has a series of conquests, like Caesar, at least before he falls in love with a highly unattainable man. He owns all these beautiful things but he can't show them off because he owns them illegally.

Dorian doesn't read as loose, he reads as prim and proper. So much for slutty Dorian...

Thank you. Slutty!Dorian is a pet peeve of mine. Would a man so romantic he won't steal just for money be a slut? Never!

Re: Another thing:

[jmtorres.livejournal.com]

You're very perceptive, and so had better write a lot of Eroicafic

Heh.

grey_bard told me I had to write for the zine to come out next year.

[bravecows.livejournal.com]

foreverdirt suggested that I might find this post interesting, and I really, really do. :) I've nothing intelligent to add, but thanks for this post -- I hadn't realised how much of Klaus's attraction for me lay in how much he sprawls around. Not so much because of the implicit sexual invitation, as because of the control his ease in his own body implies, and the contradiction between that and his insane discomfort with anybody violating his personal space. ah, Klaus.

[jmtorres.livejournal.com]

I hadn't realised how much of Klaus's attraction for me lay in how much he sprawls around.

You mean, you aren't like me, staring at scanlations going, "Guh... *headdesk* I am a freak"? *G*

Oooh! I know who you are! I have read your fic, and enjoyed it. *friends*

[teot.livejournal.com]

Oh, thank you for posting this! I'm going to put this in my memories to look at later. I love Eroica!

[jmtorres.livejournal.com]

You're welcome!

*grins*

[holde-maid.livejournal.com]

*reads "Klaus Heinz von dem Eberbach" and breaks down giggling*

*recovering* My take is that the crossing legs thing etc. is part of a more feminine body language, as has pretty much been said.

[jmtorres.livejournal.com]

Er... is there a joke I'm missing on account of knowing no German whatsoever?

[calicokat.livejournal.com]

That's quite an interesting essay. I was directed over here by caithion, who's been kind enough to humor my recent Eroica babbling.

Hmm, I think I'd come to a little bit different conclusion on the same information, though. Eroica doesn't strike me as "prim". Prim would be synonymous with, say... unsophisticated, demure, or puritanical, right? Dorian has always come across to me as just the opposite. He seems, to me, to be ludicrously cosmopolitan. I've interpreted his careful carriage as him affecting exaggerated sensuality. When he relaxes, he looks positively languorous; when he stands, it's with such an easy grace that you know he practiced in front of a mirror to perfect it. Feigned demureness is a hedonist standard, it offers the impression of being so completely in control and comfortable with your body that it never relaxes the slightest whit out of line.

But, I would agree, at the same time, that Dorian isn't at all slutty. His conquests are deliberate, and from what I've seen he's quite particular about them. When he comments "I usually undress others. I'm not quite used to having the tables turned," I can only assume that he exercises the same dedicated artistry in lovemaking as he does just standing around. (Between that and other comments, I think the manga also suggests he's not a frequent switch hitter in terms of position; he's in control, and he's on top.)

At least right now, I don't think I see where Yasuko-sensei might show Dorian as a woman, or suggest he's an "uke"... I'm not saying you couldn't sell me on it, but so far I've seen Dorian as a big cat: aloof and predatory, with that catlike grace and uneven big cat purr, quite capable of roaring.

As for Klaus, yeah, we're mostly on the same page. :3 He's a big, athletic guy and, I think, while he makes ludicrous demands on his body, he also hasn't taken the time to develop a relationship with it beyond it meeting what he asks. Maybe it's the simple difference between Dorian being physical and Klaus being cerebral. Dorian's all physical efficiency, while Klaus errs on the side of excessive force. There's that part in volume 2 where Klaus shakes Dorian up and Dorian points out: "I'm not built like a man that can wield a magnum with just one hand," where Klaus pauses for one emphasized panel just looking at him before immediately becoming gentler, that distinctly impressed the phrase "doesn't know his own strength" on me. Maybe simply because he's so excessively strong he's never found himself in need of feeling out his limits. Hence, he runs and stands looser... there's no deliberate conservation of energy.

I guess both of them strike me as quite comfortable with their bodies... But, I haven't had the money to pick up the Japanese manga, so I'm willing to stand corrected. :O

[jmtorres.livejournal.com]

The definition of prim I'm operating from is (I'm quoting from dictionary.com here) "Precise or proper to the point of affectation; excessively decorous," or "affectedly dainty or refined" so I don't think we're necessarily disagreeing.

when he stands, it's with such an easy grace that you know he practiced in front of a mirror to perfect it.

Yes, probably. Vague, unconscious social programming is only partially attributable to why women sit folded up and are often pictured that way. Women do intentionally train themselves to sit a certain way, stand a certain way, walk a certain way. Frex, walking in heels isn't exactly natural. So, yeah, it wouldn't surprise me if Dorian had trained himself in his stances.

[innervoice-chan.livejournal.com]

Um...hi? *waves*
You don't know me, but kadorienne posted a link to your Eroica scanlations, and I spent the entire day yesterday unsuccessfully trying to download them! I have a dial-up connection, and it takes SO LONG--about 5 hours to get to 69%, which is as far as I ever got--and once, I got cut off through my own stupidity and once through no fault of my own, and I tried to once again start downloading just now and it said "Not Found," which probably means that you've taken them down, and--*stops rambling and simply looks pleadingly at you with teary eyes*

What can I say besides, "Please have mercy on a poor unhappy girl with a dial-up connection! Please, please put them up for just a few more hours!" *eyes get tearier and even more pleading*

[jmtorres.livejournal.com]

Back up.

Putting up the second file set tomorrow.

[kytha.livejournal.com]

Or possibly that he actually has a giant cock and is only comfortable sitting with his knees six miles apart.

I am cracking up like no tomorrow. I've probably go repression issues of my own. XD

<3 <3 <3 for Klaus!

[jmtorres.livejournal.com]

*grins* I heart Klaus, too.

[sindeniirelle.livejournal.com]

Hello. You don't know me but I was trying to find other users interested in Eroica and I stumbled across your essay. Very insightful! And definitely very interesting. I find it interesting that Dorian, despite having such a confident and extroverted personality, uses such reserved, almost shy, body language. And Klaus...just becomes more of an enigma the more I learn about him. Thanks for sharing this.

[jmtorres.livejournal.com]

You're welcome! I enjoyed... uh. *grins* Pretty much all aspects of getting these pictures together. I'm glad you liked it!

[ickaimp.livejournal.com]

Yeah, okay, that was pretty much completely gratuitous. Moving on.

Yay, Gratuitous!!! XD

I'm both impressed and kicking myself for not noticing the body language sooner. ^^;; You're right, Dorian does have a bit more effeminate body language while Klaus has the whole he-man thing going.
... trying very very hard not to make some comment about 'Klaus caveman drag Eroica off' to do what ever. *thuds head on desk*

Thank you very much for the insight!! XD

(was directed here by innervoice_chan from schlosseberbach )

[jmtorres.livejournal.com]

*cracking up* Klaus with a giant club! In an untailored leopard fur loincloth!

[niqaeli]

*hasn't read Eroica at all*

*is fascinated all the same*

No, seriously, because one of the reasons women curl up is to minimise the amount of space they take up because they are taught that they should not affect the men's space, affect the rest of the world, that they don't *deserve* that space to sprawl in. It's also protective, curling fetal is instinctive when you feel threatened.

Now, here's the thing. Dorian is flamboyant, I understand? In fact, incredibly provactive and practically predatory with the use of his sexuality? (I might be TOTALLY OVERREADING that part, since I haven't read it, so, obviously this might just be crack). But. If you put the one together with the other, it's in fact possible that Dorian has a rather unpleasant history--one in which he was sexually abused in some way at some point. He's provactive but at the same time trying to protect himself. You'll have long-term sexual abuse victims turn it into something they "want" because that way they have some control--it's not being taken from them, they're not being violated. ...and. Yes.

Now, Klaus... looks very comfortable in his body. He's not divorced from it, he lives *in* it, instead of using it. Which might also be why he has some touch issues, because it *is* a violation, or it can be, and he can't abide the violation of his person. But if no one is violating his boundaries, then he's perfectly comfortable and relaxed.

And, damn you, I now need to read this manga to see if any of this idle speculation is remotely backed up by the canon. *glares*

[jmtorres.livejournal.com]

one in which he was sexually abused in some way at some point.

Actually canon. Heh. He was like, 13, and this guy was all, "Hey, give me some lovin' and I'll give you that painting you want," and yes.

I'll see if I can figure out which disc I have this all on to bring over today.

[lucavi-lunari.livejournal.com]

Wow such a lot of interesting information- this will so help me with my fanfics later, not to mention I have to hunt down some decent scan/ translation thingies. I adore this manga by the way- more of a Dorian fan than a Klaus fan but only ever so slightly, besides the fact that Klaus reminds me of an ex boyfriend knocking the fictional characters favor points down a bit.

Eroica.

[(Anonymous)]

Ah! I miss her old 70s style :( After book 18, not only do they get shorter & buffer, but Dorian seems to 'almost' give up on Klaus. It's like he'll try to embarass the shit out of him by prancing around in drag & flirting with him where all eyes are sure to see (esp. book 31) but it seems almost strictly buisiness between them 80% of the time. But the stories get funnier (esp. with Laerence involved) & the background art has become fantastic! ::waves tearfull goodbye to tall slinky biseinentachi::

[katbell.livejournal.com]

I stumbled accross this while doing a Google Eroica search and felt that I MUST give you major props, kudos, and official certificate stating that "OMG you've won teh internets!"

Remarkably insightful and quite interesting. This is certainly going into my memories!

[jmtorres.livejournal.com]

Whoohoo! Winnage!

[empererpenguin.livejournal.com]

The pictures aren't showing up for some reason.

[jmtorres.livejournal.com]

That would be because I changed servers recently. Possibly I will get around to updating the links in this at some point.

The psych-nerd in me approves of this post.

[oriana3k.livejournal.com]

I read this a few months ago, lost the link, then found it again--yay! Even without the pics, your analysis is brilliant. It would never have occurred to me how much forethought goes into positioning of the characters. I guess that's why I like such a visual medium.

Oh, and I'd been trying to figure out why your username's so familiar to me, and I finally realized it. You wrote a Yuletide fic for PSOH, the only other fandom to completely consume my soul.

Eat my cookie. :D

Re: The psych-nerd in me approves of this post.

[jmtorres.livejournal.com]

Hee. Updated--now with visual aids! :-)

WOW!

[kohaku-imaki55.livejournal.com]

I just read this despite having been in this fandom for about a year now. Very instructive I wish the pictures had come out but I've read the manga and can visualize what you are talking about.

Haven't seen much of the later art but prefer the art from about book 3, before that the legs were just too long and skinny.

This talk about the men behind the pictures will help with my writings which one of these days I'll finish more than just a 2 page one I hope.

Re: WOW!

[jmtorres.livejournal.com]

Fixed the links :-)

Yay pictures!

[kohaku-imaki55.livejournal.com]

Yes they are working and some are the ones I was visualizing and some are not. Thank you for fixing.